This game sucks for new players

[toushin777]

So i know this thread will probably just get a bunch of terrible comments like "be better noob" or "just learn to play" but frankly as a new player who has played other mmos for 5+ years, the experience as a new player in this game is awful. The straw that broke my back was having to die in town over and over again for about 2 mins because i had the audacity to pick up an item someone else dropped. I mean there could at least be some sort of hint in the death window that the crystal caused it, but no i am just told "mysterious illness". I'm sure most people will just write this off as "well you just learned" but frankly what a terrible way to teach/treat new players. You're completely allowed to disagree but fact of the matter is things like this will drive off new players, like it did me. I really want to enjoy this game but it just isn't fun to play as a new player and i feel like i wont be having fun playing until i am a month into playing it, what really is the point of investing all that time if the experience isn't fun? It feels like i am signing up for a second job because maybe down the line i will really grow to love working there. Just my 2 cents, i might be back to check up on the thread but honestly i am pretty turned off this game after spending the last few days trying to get back into it for the first time since pre alpha. I look forward to all the people who have been playing since the start telling me just how wrong i am. All i have to say to that is try and put yourself in a new players shoes, would you want to keep playing a game that randomly kills you with no explanation other then things like "mysterious illness" while you are in town?

[Madmatx]

Nice, you found an item that killed you over and over without having to do anything? I wish I had one of those. I'd eat a sandwich and level my dieing skill with ease.

I just started playing this month and I love that you have to use a tiny bit of puzzle solving skills to play. It's by no means the Times Sunday X-word puzzle, though.

[Tagamogi]

So i know this thread will probably just get a bunch of terrible comments ...
Well, I kind of feel a thread with a terrible title deserves some terrible comments. :p So, in that spirit, let me ask you why you think people who have been playing the game a while are still around if their newbie experience was so terrible it should have made them quit? I suppose it's possible we are all secret masochists, but I hope there's a better explanation.

With that out of the way, my condolences on your crystal death - that one definitely sucks. The crystal is an item from a level 60-70 zone where players who encounter it should both have considerable experience with the game in general and should have encountered some hints in the zone on what the crystals do. The crystals are also quite valuable, so high level players should generally not just be discarding them for other players to pick up. Obviously, those "should"s rather broke down in your case, so I think it's actually good feedback that maybe the crystal disease should be more clearly identified as coming from the crystal.

However, PG is generally not a hand-holding game and its current alpha state means that some aspects of the game can be less friendly than they will be in the completed, polished version. In my experience, game-breaking bugs are very very rare, but some bugs (or unclear game mechanics) can get frustrating at times. If that sends you into a rage, you are probably better off waiting until PG moves out of alpha state before giving the game another try. Or, if you have enjoyed nothing at all about the game so far, maybe it's just not a game you will like, even once it becomes more user-friendly.

[ShieldBreaker]

Nice, you found an item that killed you over and over without having to do anything? I wish I had one of those. I'd eat a sandwich and level my dieing skill with ease.

I just started playing this month and I love that you have to use a tiny bit of puzzle solving skills to play. It's by no means the Times Sunday X-word puzzle, though.

Death xp is nice to get, and many will think of it as a perk that toushin777 got from his misadventure with the "mysterious illness". But be aware that you would only get one big first time death bonus xp, and the value of any future death- by that cause- will shrink down to zero (assuming it counts as a high level/value death and results in additional xp per addition death).


Back on topic.

toushin777 there are numerous possible reasons that you didn't find the game a match for you. Maybe the game just isn't to your tastes, maybe you prefer a more mainstream MMO experience and this MMO experience on offer is more niche or more retro. It could be that you just had a bad run of luck, you didn't happen to find a mentor in game that could help you along and ease you passed some of the early hardships. Maybe you encountered odd events like the bad crystals you picked up, you didn't explain what bad events occurred before that, but maybe you just happened upon a bunch all at once. New players have run into "mysterious illness" in Serbule before, but doesn't seem like it is a weekly occurrence or anything. If a new player ported into the middle of a druid event that would also possibly be seen as unfair, but it was just bad luck and it doesn't happen to every new player.

If I was tasked with reducing the likelihood that a new player will run across an item that cause "mysterious illness" then I would implement a system that put a debuff on a player who drops dangerous items in Serbule. You maybe get scolded by an NPC by name and they either give you a dirty look, that shames you into have a debuff or they give you a debuff with an out right minor curse they cast. You can make it more punishing if you can single out the person as the one dropping it in the first place as opposed to someone who just picked it up. Or another possible way, is if the system could detect you are the first to dropped a particular dangerous item in a populated area it gives you a penalty to you Civic Pride.

You are right, it would be difficult for experienced players to accurately imagine the thought processes and feelings of a new player that runs afoul of "mysterious illness". But all new players are not going to react the same way, if that event happened to them. Some it will upset, some will shrug it off, some will be amused. I've both enjoyed and disliked games that are generally regarded as having unfair deaths, in some cases I have even disliked the game, tried it later and enjoyed it. Hopefully, that will be the case for you and this game.

[drivendawn]

Indeed , it sounds like you never played any old school games like AC, FFXI, or EQ back in the day. Much like those games this one has minimal hand holding and is about exploration, community and discovery. These sorts of things lead to a great amount of immersion. I would say give it a few days, make some friends and ask the community questions in game then see how you feel about it.

[Crissa]

When you're dead you still have access to the help channel.

Generally that should get you the information needed to get past weird interactions like that.

[Silvonis]

I think that a good lesson was learned here: don't pick up items that you don't know what they are. It's obviously a risk/reward proposition and unfortunately, you lost on that one. I was thinking of another example, which is if someone places a spooky punch bowl down. If you drink it, you are in for a 'treat' (a treat being that you just flagged yourself for open world pvp). The overall lesson is that we don't hold your hand in Project: Gorgon. Please use your resources for help. We have a wonderful community and a fantastic resource in the way of information is the Project: Gorgon wiki.

[Sasaki]

My newbie experience was great. I took it slow, read everything, realized I need to actually solve puzzles and think in this game. My experience was heavily enriched for it, and now this game holds a special place in my heart as the MMO where I actually want to read the lore and pay attention to everything instead of grinding out 1000 quests to kill 5 things.

[Citan]

toushin777 - thanks for the feedback. What were the other straws on your back, so to speak? What else frustrated you as a new player? I presume it wasn't ONLY some jerk leaving nuclear waste in town. We can address that if it's a common occurrence (it's the first time I'd heard of that happening), but I would like to know what else angered and frustrated you as a new player.

I don't want the game to "hold your hand" and teach you every little thing. But I DO want to improve systems that are pointlessly obtuse or frustrating to newbies -- I just don't know what those things are. I haven't been a newbie in a long time, so your feedback is very valuable!

[Flexarc]

Noob at the game here. Playing since 1-7-18. toushin777 sorry to hear your troubles. I did mourn at one of the sites your character died.

The main thing I do like in this game is that there is no hand-holding. Everything has a learning curve.

I have used the help tab in chat on a few occasions and have always received a quick and helpful reply. Was even able to answer a question someone asked cause I had recently gone through the same thing. The discovery, however painfully annoying it can be at times, is the fun.

I learned, in the few days played so far, that care must be taken and real decisions must be made for my character. The consequences could be very difficult to overcome.

I hope you toushin777 give the game another chance at some time. I got frustrated once, and stopped playing for the night, only to return the next day to figure out what needed to be done.

Thanks to the devs for making the game.

[Oxlazr]

It seems to me that, especially with an upcoming steam release, the game should at least look to mitigate ways players can actively hinder newbies.

This just seems like an oversight, and likely the exception because I can't really imagine any other ways to influence another player's journey negatively beyond this sort of thing (maybe the cauldrons, but they're pretty ominous, I guess.) - Most items inform the player that there is a potential consequence on use, not for just picking it up.

Anyway, the obvious solution in this situation would be to simply make it so picking up yellow crystals requires X mining skill: "You require at least level 25 mining to pick that item up."

I'd guess as time goes on this sort of thing would become more common, so it makes sense to introduce a safeguard sooner rather than later.

[Crissa]

Anyway, the obvious solution in this situation would be to simply make it so picking up yellow crystals requires X mining skill: "You require at least level 25 mining to pick that item up."
Yeah, that's a good idea. Enough that someone won't be a newbie to the 'everything can blow up in your face' aspect. And perhaps high enough that they could at least travel to where a cure was, even if it wouldn't be someplace they'd normally hang out.

I've seen newbies get ravaged by other curses, too, and while I've felt that crushing despair of having a debuff from a boss when I either fell out of a group or the group disbanded...

Maybe give lower-level players an emote cue (like that blaring horns but less scary) for when they've got one of the weird debuffs? Or let other players see the debuffs on someone so we could try to help a little better?

Not being able to see people's buffs and debuffs is something I miss from other games.

[OpieFisher]

If you think that's bad,you'll get a kick out of this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Tybee_Island_mid-air_collision

[Karamasha]

I'm a new player too but i actually find it very fun to have a game with a lot of mysteries, but i agree that dangerous items should have some kind of warning.

[AngelTerri]

Mysteries are one thing. But flat out items that can smack a noob down is just wrong IMO.

I agree there should be some warning like how Buried in Time did in some parts, when you are about to do something stupid, and your companion is like .. "If you do that, you're gonna poke your eye out .." and if ignored, you slide and get impaled on a row of spears.

[Ryker]

In response to the OP, I think this is why the game is so appealing to us. It’s like being a child and learning the hard way that when you touch something hit, you get burned. After that? You probably won’t touch the hot thing again. Of course your case is a little different because someone played a dirty trick but did it hinder you long-term or was it just one annoying occurrence?

As others have said in this post, this game is definitely an homage to the old games that a lot of us grew up with and less so in regards to the modern MMO’s. Many of us love it but it’s definitely a niche game. I’ve been here about a week and have loved the experience. The community has also been the most helpful community that I’ve seen so far.

In closing, I hope that you give the game another shot because as you said, you want to like it. Lean on your resources(wiki and other players) and see if you can get your fun out of it. I’m confident that you can. If you have any questions, I’m very far from an expert due to lack of experience but I’d be glad to help out where I can, so feel free to contact me here or in game(same name) and I’ll do what I can.

[Mikhaila]

A situation like that can be frustrating, but at the same time I think you have to realize that it was partially caused by a player, not just by the game. Your feedback is valuable because it alerts designers to a possible flaw. Maybe they could add an explanation the first (or more) times you die from this situation. "You died from a mysterious illness. I wonder if it was caused by that odd crystal you picked up? Maybe you should throw it back on the ground. Hint: here is how to drop items....."

Myself, i started playing last night and I'm having a great time. I have a lot of game experience, playing various games, eq for 10 years, owning game stores for 30 years, and doing a lot of playtesting. At the stage this game is in, I think they've done a great job. Alpha is a stage where you can expect things that are unacceptable in a released game. (Or used to be unacceptable, how many new games have horrible bugs these days? :) ).

Take a deep breath, realize you helped with development, got some death exp, and get on with playing.

[Crissa]

A higher level player would know most of the diseases and afflictions or how to search or cure them.

It's really only needed for when low-level players encounter things that are dangerous.

We do have the boss klaxxons and such; we don't need to hold hands, but...

(I really love/hate the klaxxons because they always give me an adrenaline rush.)

[Sheawanna]

To the Op , please remember every new experience is to your benefit to your exp . yes a valuable lesson was learned . This game offers no hand holding . but did you read what says when you picked it up ? when you died I am sure you gained exp from that death . it also stated what you died from . so if you want to drop a item causing you to die [[[ simply click item and drop it ]]] ... I truly hope you give the game another chance because it really is a great game . perhaps flaws and things that might need changing , but the true exp comes from death and learning :) . this game with all its blessings and flaws is still in alpha and with every person playing who not only submits suggestion or bugs helps not hinders the experience :)
I was on when you picked it up . you seemed extremely upset others mentioned to drop it . perhaps reading all and everything might have helped or listening to the offered help of others . I am positive if you try again you will find PG is a awesome game . with many willing to not only help you but advance your character . :) I have always found in the 4 plus years . That not only are those in charge of developing the game helpful willing to offer suggestion but the community as well .

[Krustydog]

I remember in UO making trapped boxes and bags and leaving them laying around and watching noobs open them and die. That's the nature of a sandbox.

[Crissa]

That's the nature of a sandbox.
No, that's the nature of making a world that doesn't encourage players to experiment.

It has nothing to do with a sandbox. You could screw with players in WoW, too.

[Raviollius]

You're completely allowed to disagree but fact of the matter is things like this will drive off new players, like it did me. I really want to enjoy this game but it just isn't fun to play as a new player and i feel like i wont be having fun playing until i am a month into playing it(...) trying to get back into it for the first time since pre alpha. (...) would you want to keep playing a game that randomly kills you with no explanation other then things like "mysterious illness" while you are in town?

1- So you're a new player but also a pre-alpha player? How does that work?
2- Randomly kills you with little warning? Try getting stuck into cow form hahaha
3- As a pre-alpha player, you clearly haven't been around when we were distributing poisoned food.

[srand]

Eh ... Let's not necro this thread.