Multi-boxing/multi-account activty

[cratoh]

I'm very disappointed to read this.

Khaylara and Greyfyn say no thanks, and that means that its going to cause a fuss? Not understanding that multiboxing doesn't effect them, or anyone else and then Khay threatening to quit makes it a contentious issue, and therefore not allowed?

I think you will find that a lot of people, just by the nature of the way games have come over the past few years, will automatically be thinking about second accounts before even logging in, a particular type of gamer anyway.

I'm really disappointed.

Multiboxing does not create problems - botting does.

Since you made this unfortunate decision, could you please clarify what happens with second accounts? I know loads of people with second accounts for making music, dancing, gardening, storage, guilds, vendors.

Also, like Khariel says - how do you make the call if someone is boxing or not. My wife very occasionally log in, doesn't do much, and isn't very good either. In fact I could probably play 3 characters more effectively.

Off topic slightly - does anyone know of a game apart from WoW and EQ2 where multiboxing isn't discriminated against?

[Khaylara]

@Dmdtt ...precisely. I state they were botting and shoot a report (I'm absolutely positive they were but that's beside the point). When more players use several chars simultaneously they will be reported for sure. Who is gonna process all these reports? Who is going to waste time on it? What's the alternative, just let everyone do whatever they like cause you have no staff to police?

On your question, no, macros are not allowed for anything (pretty clear from both Silvonis and Citan, it's automated gameplay). If you used them you are very lucky not to be banned..


Quote "You are not allowed to multibox for anything other than item-muling" So simultaneosly running 2+ chars to do the tedious stuff obviously falls into the no-no category.


@ Fin You know very well that Citan wouldn't go back on a decision based only on a temper tantrum from me or Grey...He probably read, had time to process and reached the same conclusion. Allowing it would open a can of worms. Why you wanna multibox anyway, you pretty much have everything maxed already.


edit @ Khariel I know many people who play with their gf/bf, kids, spouse and I ve never seen devs having a problem with it. If that helps

[cratoh]

Hi Citan,

I really enjoy playing your game, and have invested quite some time, and some cash and effort into it, making people feel welcome, trying to be useful member of alpha and the community. I want it to succeed, and hope that it will, but I have to say I am very disappointed with your decision on multi boxing. I am totally hacked off with the discrimination, and misconceptions around it, and the issues other players have on it. Essentially I have had other players ignorance of a play style forced on me with your decision - as a multi boxer yourself in WoW you are aware that yes you can do things with it that would be hard alone - but that is the point. It facilitates play in low population games or areas. You are never as effective as a full group. You never have the massive resource advantage that anti-boxing people seem to think you have, because you send it on equipping the boxed characters anyway.

P:G in particular would have been great fun to box in quiet times, and pretty difficult to have had any advantage because of the myriad of skills needed to round out a character.

I wish you would consider making a bit of an effort here by allowing multiboxing, and just explaining to the people that don't realise that it is not the end of the world, that it is none of their business to force play style on another player, and that it doesn't impact them anyway.

Cheers,

Finbarr

[chill]

"Discrimination" against multi-boxers ?? Just play the game normally. Having a second account multiboxed for muleing/trade/storage is already a massive advantage in a small indie game built around the favor system and similar progression. There's already issues with there being a select few popular hunting/farming/camped spots. Now you drag along more characters from the same person and add them to the equation?

I'm glad it's not being allowed, especially not for combat (that seems like a no-brainer).

[Spiritfingers]

I have a feeling global is about to get a lot more heated when srand or Silvonis comes online. These types of decisions are hard and some will hate it some will love it. I'm more from the group..just play the game the way it is lined up to be played. In fact, I can't think of a single mmo I've ever played that allowed multi boxing..no I never played EVE online.

[sudostahp]

I've been watching this thread out of curiosity, but I figured that it's time that I register an account and share my perspective.

I'm a multiboxer. I've played anywhere from 2-20 accounts at a time in AC, WoW, Rift, and Guild Wars 2. I have not multiboxed in combat in PG, but I have used it for other things. It's why I purchased two Patron packages for when the game goes retail. I've been multiboxing for over a decade, and it's about much more than gaining some sort of competitive edge -- it's a play style. I do it for the additional challenge that it creates, and I do it to more effectively engage in challenging combat scenarios without the need of a group.

I dislike raids. I dislike organized group content focused on rare drops and progression. Multiboxing helps me compensate that disinterest with self-reliance.

Regardless of the eventual policy decision, I intend on multiboxing. My computer is more than powerful enough to run two instances of VMware, and I have the financial means to purchase another machine if needed. Folks like @dmdtt and myself are tech-savvy, and while we can be chased underground, multiboxing in itself can be hard to detect.

Frankly, I think this is all tilting at windmills. Combat macros are the real problem, and combat macros + multiboxing is where the problem has occurred in other games. Multiboxing is incredibly frustrating, time-consuming, and gives little advantage in that 1+n accounts always requires 1+n gear and councils to level. Let players manually multibox if they find that the fun outweighs the inherent annoyance. If players use it to interfere with the experience of other players, e.g., camping a boss, that's an easier thing to address with the COC.

[cratoh]

I've been watching this thread out of curiosity, but I figured that it's time that I register an account and share my perspective.


Frankly, I think this is all tilting at windmills. Combat macros are the real problem, and combat macros + multiboxing is where the problem has occurred in other games. Multiboxing is incredibly frustrating, time-consuming, and gives little advantage in that 1+n accounts always requires 1+n gear and councils to level. Let players manually multibox if they find that the fun outweighs the inherent annoyance. If players use it to interfere with the experience of other players, e.g., camping a boss, that's an easier thing to address with the COC.

Exactly my point. And that is why I find input from people who don't get the difference between boxing, and boxing with bot programs that come and feedback on soemthing they don't understand, and scupper it, so bloody annoying.

Edit to add:

I'd like to think the community here was open minded about different peoples ways of getting enjoyment out of a game, and for myself and a lot of other multiboxing, thinking about a lot of characters and their gear and convoluted hoarding, progression and the like is in effect a meta-game, or end game when group stuff and raid content is not preferable, or for when player numbers are lower, as they are sometimes for people in non-US time zones. Added to that - I would like to think the community is responsible enough to not use bots/macros or to cheat and that the core of players in P:G would certainly be reporting any of the few instances where it is seen, I know I have.

It's a shame to see misconceptions used to vociferously berate players for 'cheating' when as Sudostahp pointed out, multi boxing manually, though rewarding, is time consuming and difficult and not at all the faceroll that some people imagine it to be, and furthermore - it is hardly difficult to get max level from fresh off the isle these days any way. As Dmdtt pointed out it took only a few days.

Greyfyn's comment that 'Now you have what looks like player mobs running together, which could be friends, but sometimes really look like bots. Your caves and dungeons don't have the capacity for multiple groups of this type AND solo players. It's a logistics concern, which is why players get ornery about it.' Well, the way the game is designed already it wouldn't matter if it is mutiboxers or solo players, the dungeons will still be empty - there just isn't enough mobs full stop.

Grobs comments regarding Industry. You can still have more than one account to use. Even if multiboxing - having more than one account logged in - is banned it still doesn't stop people having multiple accounts and playing them 1 at a time and level up Industry on all of them.

Chill's comment 'just play the game normally' What is normal? I like multiboxing, was looking forward to trying it. There is no normal.

Greyfun's comment 'Allowing wide open multiboxing--is going to make the players who don't like that style of play disappear from game.' No, no it isn't. People play games because they liek the gameplay. Nothing about multiboxing stops someone who isn't doing it from playing their game. If anything it would not encourage people from other games, WoW, EQ, EQ2, who enjoy multiboxing to start playing.

Spiritfingers comment 'In fact, I can't think of a single mmo I've ever played that allowed multi boxing' Off the top of my head I can think of a few: EverQuest, EverQuest II, Age of Conan, Aion, Anarchy Online, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Dungeons and Dragons Online, EVE Online, Lord of the Rings Online, , Lineage, Lineage II, Ultima Online, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Warhammer Online and World of Warcraft for example. (RIP VSoH)

[Khaylara]

Sudostahp I suggest reading Citan's first post again. By memory he said that he doesn't intend to allow multiboxing after launch so if players intend to purchase multiple accounts for that purpose he is advising against doing so.

The debate was for multiboxing in alpha.

Not gonna argue the point further but remember this is a small indie game, non-instanced and with a limited capacity server. It is not either AC, WoW, Rift or GW. Citan said he multiboxed in WoW, I multiboxed in l2 (and used macros cause it was allowed and even recommended to do so).
NOT the same thing at all. And if you are such seasoned gamers I'm sure you see the difference but choose to put your idea of fun above anything else. Tired of saying the same thing reallly....they don't have the staff to check all the reports about botting (accurate or not they STILL have to check)....blah blah....people will take advantage ....blah blah...You don't get that what you are doing/intend to do is an exploit, really?

I understand Fin, very well, i policed a (much larger) server and I got sick of people finding inventive ways to exploit something that it's supposed to be fun and balanced. I can explain to you if you wish how the company's income dropped when we weren't policing enough and removing enough "multiboxes". What's next, trading for real cash?
No, nobody is stupid enough not to understand the "difference between botting and multiboxing". If you take a breather and think you would realize that is bad for the server though it might be enjoyable for you.

Also I am solo oriented myself but if I wanna play alone I play BG or mount and blade...or witcher...there's plenty of good single player games out there.

Anyway this is itching on my nerves already cause it's so obtuse so I'm out.

[eikona]

Exactly my point. And that is why I find input from people who don't get the difference between boxing, and boxing with bot programs that come and feedback on soemthing they don't understand, and scupper it, so bloody annoying.

Traditionally, multi-boxers hog content and that is why you have hostility. To say that people who oppose it don't understand it is to misunderstand where the opposition is coming from. Yes, I understand that not all multi-boxers are botting and macroing. I am less opposed to those who do not bot/macro, however in my anecdotal experience (and I am sure you will tell me you are not one of these players), those who multi-box prevent me from playing, particularly in contested or low population content.

I have known some great people, who log out one account when they encounter another player, and group with them instead. However, the vast majority refuse to group, and because they have 2 accounts playing, they will generally squeeze a single player out of the area. They won't respond to tells, and if they do it's to tell whoever is contacting them that they aren't interested in grouping. I realize this is painting with a broad brush, however, you seemed to be tossing away those who do not like boxing with a broad brush yourself.

There are differing opinions on this issue, and no matter which way Citan goes, people are going to be upset. It's a sucky position for him to be in. But please don't posit that because my opinion is different from yours, I don't understand.

[cratoh]

The debate was for multiboxing in alpha.

And if you are such seasoned gamers I'm sure you see the difference but choose to put your idea of fun above anything else.

Snipped a bit here - no it wasn't, it was about multiboxing in general, and about whether it was going to be allowed going forward to release.

I'm such a seasoned gamer that I understand multiboxing, like any form of gameplay, is not damaging to any game unless abused.

I